Arthur White
YOB: 1954
Experience: Surf Life Saving, Surfing, Sailing, Recreational Fishing, Outdoor Instructor, Charter Operator
Regions: Catlins, Foveaux Strait, Stewart Island, Marlborough Sound, Otago Peninsula
Interview Location: Dunedin, NZ
Interview Date: 30 November 2015
Post Date: 01 April 2020; Copyright © 2020 Arthur White and Steve Crawford
1. EXPERIENCE IN AOTEAROA/NZ COASTAL ENVIRONMENTS
CRAWFORD: Alright Arthur, let's begin with where and when you were born, please.
WHITE: Balclutha in ’54.
CRAWFORD: At what age did you start spending a significant amount time around, on or in New Zealand coastal waters?
WHITE: 4 years of age.
CRAWFORD: Were you still living in Balclutha, but spending summers out by the coast?
WHITE: In the Catlins.
CRAWFORD: Generally, what regions around the Catlins?
WHITE: Owaka. Pounawea more specifically.
CRAWFORD: You had a holiday place or a seasonal home? Something like that?
WHITE: That’s right.
CRAWFORD: How long for that kind of seasonal pattern? Home in Balclutha, summers in Pounawea?
WHITE: Moved out the Pounawea area, probably when I was about 10 or 11.
CRAWFORD: Oh, I misunderstood. I thought you were in Pounawea only for the summer. You were still living in Balclutha?
WHITE: Yeah, Balclutha. But, spent all our recreational time in that area.
CRAWFORD: Ok. 'Recreational time' starting at what point in the year?
WHITE: Almost all year round.
CRAWFORD: Even during the school year?
WHITE: Yeah. In the holidays of the school year.
CRAWFORD: Those summer school holidays, when do they start?
WHITE: Usually about the 20th December. That’s summer, right through to the end of January. But then we had the winter holidays as well.
CRAWFORD: Right. But there was a period of about six weeks during the summer, when you were around coastal waters?
WHITE: Yeah.
CRAWFORD: But also weekends?
WHITE: A lot of weekends.
CRAWFORD: Sounds like pretty much whenever your family had time?
WHITE: That's right.
CRAWFORD: I'm guessing that pattern went on for some time, year after year. What was the next thing in your history that changed regarding your time around the water?
WHITE: Then we started going to Stewart Island for our holidays.
CRAWFORD: What was the reason for the change?
WHITE: My Father started building and ordering houses over there.
CRAWFORD: Did that mean you spent less time in the Catlins? Pretty much all of the equivalent time on Stewart Island?
WHITE: No. Because the holiday periods were at Stewart Island. But then you’re back in Balclutha and taking part in the school year. Then all my weekends were taken up from when I was about probably 12-13 upwards, in the Surf Life Saving Club and surfing. Besides the Surf Club and so forth, I was also sailing. Yacht racing.
CRAWFORD: Prior to the age of 11?
WHITE: No.
CRAWFORD: Ok. By the time you were 11, I guess a couple things happened. Summer holidays at Stewart Island ...
WHITE: Yes.
CRAWFORD: But for other holidays and weekends, you were back to the Pounawea region. And it was at this time that you started to pick up surfing, surf life saving, and sailing as well?
WHITE: That’s right.
CRAWFORD: What general area in the Catlins?
WHITE: Around the Nuggets. Kaka Point. Pounawea's further sou'west, and then up round the Nuggets.
CRAWFORD: Ok. How long did that pattern last?
WHITE: The Stewart Island times were mostly the winter-times, winter holidays. The summer holidays were mostly once I started to be a little bit independent from my Parents. Down at the beach, with the Surf Club and the surfing. That went from about the age of 12, right through till I was 18.
CRAWFORD: Ok. We were talking about your time at Stewart Island, but at that age I'm guessing it probably wasn’t around the entire Island?
WHITE: No, no. It was Paterson Inlet.
CRAWFORD: The Inlet specifically. What were your activities round the Inlet during those winter holidays? What kinds of things were you doing on, around, or in the water?
WHITE: Mostly snorkelling. Or handline fishing.
CRAWFORD: Freediving for Pāua?
WHITE: Pāua. Just exploring, seeing what the coastline was like.
CRAWFORD: Ok. Any spearfishing or anything like that?
WHITE: A little bit, but not much.
CRAWFORD: Mostly just freediving for the hell of it?
WHITE: Freediving for exploration. Picking up Pāuas, Crayfish and other shellfish.
CRAWFORD: Right. Did you do any sailing or other boating in Paterson Inlet?
WHITE: Yes, a lot of boating. Always had our own boats there.
CRAWFORD: And you mentioned you had sailing experience up around the Catlins as well?
WHITE: Yes, definitely. I would have access to my Parent's boat. I’d launch the boat off the beach, and head up the sea, fishing around the Nuggets.
CRAWFORD: A power boat?
WHITE: Only a small boat. Approximately four and a half metres long, with a 10 horesepower on the back.
CRAWFORD: Ok. What was your boating experience in Paterson Inlet? What kind of vessel there?
WHITE: Similar sort of boats. A large dinghy with small outboards. And a small trailer sailor at some stage.
CRAWFORD: Good. That carried you through till about 18. What happened next?
WHITE: I shifted from Balclutha to the Marlborough Sounds. I lived in the Marlborough Sounds as an Outward Bound Instructor. Lived all through the Sounds.
CRAWFORD: What time of the year were you there?
WHITE: All year round, for about three years.
CRAWFORD: Ok. That was hardcore experience as an Instructor?
WHITE: Yeah.
CRAWFORD: Had you taken Outward Bound courses yourself, previously?
WHITE: I did the course myself when I was 18. And then I went back to the Nelson area. Full-time Instructor when I was about 20.
CRAWFORD: Ok. We know the period of time, we know the region. Tell me about the activities, on or around or in the water.
WHITE: My instructing activities were sailing, kayaking and snorkelling, freediving.
CRAWFORD: Freediving for the heck of it?
WHITE: For the heck of it, mostly in that area.
CRAWFORD: A little bit of harvesting?
WHITE: Maybe a little bit of harvesting, but not much.
CRAWFORD: Those activities were what you were paid to instruct. Did you do anything different in your off-time, in addition to all that?
WHITE: No. That’s what I did in my off time. [laughs]
CRAWFORD: Like I said, hardcore. Then what happened?
WHITE: When I was about 23 and I moved back to the Nuggets. Kaka Point for one year. And then shifted to Dunedin for one year.
CRAWFORD: What did you spend your time doing for that year that you were back at Kaka Point? Time on around or in the water?
WHITE: Just surfing and boating, freediving, setting nets, and collecting food.
CRAWFORD: Any surf life saving there as well?
WHITE: Very little.
CRAWFORD: Ok, so not so much then, for one year. Then, you relocated again, this time to Dunedin. For a spell? For how long?
WHITE: One year.
CRAWFORD: For that one year in Dunedin, what were your major coastal activities?
WHITE: Sailing.
CRAWFORD: Competitive?
WHITE: No, no, no, I built a yacht to start travelling in. I launched that there, and we sailed that. Getting used to the boat.
CRAWFORD: I'm guessing you had less time for other things, since you were very focused on building the yacht?
WHITE: Yeah.
CRAWFORD: How big was the yacht, roughly?
WHITE: Eight meters.
CRAWFORD: You built it yourself. With help from some old-timers, that kind of thing?
WHITE: Nah.
CRAWFORD: No. You just made all your own decisions, including the mistakes?
WHITE: Yeah.
CRAWFORD: You spent most of your time in Dunedin building that vessel. What about other activities like surfing or swimming?
WHITE: Very little surfing at that time, because I was pretty focused. I was also in Teacher's College at the same time. So, I was pretty focused on that.
CRAWFORD: That's important. So, you were building this boat in your spare time, while you were attending Teacher's College?
WHITE: In my spare time, yeah.
CRAWFORD: Of which there’s not a lot, when you’re in Teacher's College. Was that a one-year or a two-year program?
WHITE: That was a one-year course. For me, it was.
CRAWFORD: And you built the vessel during that same year, as well?
WHITE: That’s right. I had already started building it in the Marlborough Sounds, and then I moved it down there half-built.
CRAWFORD: Ok. You were how old in Dunedin?
WHITE: Approximately 24 years of age.
CRAWFORD: Ok. What happened after that year in Dunedin?
WHITE: Moved back to the Nuggets.
CRAWFORD: For how long this time?
WHITE: A year.
CRAWFORD: [chuckles] You were the man of annual episodes. [both chuckle] What did you do, during that year?
WHITE: I finished off the boat. Of course, surfed a lot. Spent a lot of time in the water with freediving.
CRAWFORD: You had more time to be on or in the water?
WHITE: Yeah.
CRAWFORD: Doing the usual things, but mostly focused in the Catlins?
WHITE: Mostly in the Catlins. Yes, that’s right.
CRAWFORD: That was for a year. Then what did you do?
WHITE: After that year, I then moved down into the bottom end of the South Island. To a place called Tuatapere.
CRAWFORD: Over by Riverton?
WHITE: Yeah, out the back of Riverton.
CRAWFORD: How long were you there?
WHITE: Almost three years.
CRAWFORD: What was your job, when you were there in Tuatapere?
WHITE: Teaching.
CRAWFORD: Ok. When you weren’t teaching ... Well, the kids get their holidays, so I'm guessing teachers get summer holidays and whatever other holidays plus weekends. That type of thing?
WHITE: Yeah.
CRAWFORD: What were your coastal activities then?
WHITE: For weekends, it was same activities again. Freediving, not much surfing. But small boats - off the coast, fishing.
CRAWFORD: Freediving and linefishing?
WHITE: Yep, linefishing. And every holiday, over to Stewart Island. Because I was quite close.
CRAWFORD: Was that a resumption of Stewart Island time? Or had you always been spending regular Stewart Island holiday time, throughout those previous years?
WHITE: Yes, I was still visiting Stewart Island often.
CRAWFORD: Pretty much every year?
WHITE: Yeah, every year. Except when I was living in the Sounds, I didn’t go to the Island for a bit.
CRAWFORD: Fair enough. But when you were at Kaka Point, when you were in Dunedin, you were spending holiday time ...
WHITE: Yeah, back at the Island.
CRAWFORD: Winter holiday time? Summer holiday time?
WHITE: At that age of my life, it didn’t matter. Often it would be summer holidays as well, because the yacht that I built - I took it down there, and we would spend the whole summer there then. But then we'd be there for the winter holidays, as well.
CRAWFORD: When you had the yacht at Stewart Island, were you still focused on Paterson Inlet? Or are you taking the yacht ...
WHITE: No. Focused on Paterson Inlet.
CRAWFORD: Ok. That was for the three years you spent teaching in Tuatapere. Then, you said you moved back up to Dunedin?
WHITE: That’s right.
CRAWFORD: Another teaching gig up here?
WHITE: That’s right.
CRAWFORD: How long was that for?
WHITE: It's been 17 years.
CRAWFORD: Elementary or secondary school?
WHITE: Secondary. King’s High School.
CRAWFORD: Would it be fair to say that during those 17 years that you were fairly consistent, in terms of your activities on or around the water?
WHITE: Definitely.
CRAWFORD: On a seasonal basis?
WHITE: Definitely.
CRAWFORD: Ok. Where you what coastal activities have you been doing, during that period? How frequently would you be around the water?
WHITE: Almost every single weekend.
CRAWFORD: What were you doing?
WHITE: It could be surfing, it could be handlining, it could be freediving, and a lot of sailing. I sold the first boat, and I was on the second, and now a third boat.
CRAWFORD: Ok. How big is that vessel? The one you're sailing now?
WHITE: That would be about 10 metres.
CRAWFORD: And where have you been sailing, generally?
WHITE: Anywhere around the Otago Peninsula, and up the coast.
CRAWFORD: How far up?
WHITE: Oamaru. But that 10-metre vessel, I actually took almost a year off - we lived on the boat for a year. I was married by then with two children, and we sailed the full length of the South Island, and up into the North Island. So, back living on the boat all around different parts of the North Island. All through here, sailed back.
CRAWFORD: All during that one year off?
WHITE: Yeah.
CRAWFORD: Ok. That was an exceptional year, of the 17-year period. For the typical years, you were doing a variety of different activities, but mostly focused around the Otago Peninsula?
WHITE: Mostly focused around the Otago Peninsula.
CRAWFORD: With a little bit up to the north, a little bit to the south.
WHITE: Yeah, but mostly right here. And every long break, down to the Island.
CRAWFORD: Every long break, both summer and winter?
WHITE: Yeah, yeah. The Island, yeah.
CRAWFORD: And focused mostly around Paterson Inlet?
WHITE: Yeah.
CRAWFORD: Right. During that 17-year period, what have been your dominant activities around the Otago Peninsula?
WHITE: Mostly sailing, with a bit of surfing.
CRAWFORD: And when you were down on the Island?
WHITE: Freediving and handlining. Living on the boat, parking up in different bays and exploring.
CRAWFORD: Ok. What was the next major change for you?
WHITE: When I hit 50 ... I suddenly thought I needed a change, at that point. [chuckles]
CRAWFORD: You left teaching?
WHITE: I left teaching. I must have been about 47 when I bought the boat that I’ve got now. I did another sailing stint, and towards the end of that 17 years, I took off for another three-month stint with my family. I sold my boat that we were in at that time, which was an 11-metre boat. I bought a 15-metre boat and brought it back down here. I put it in survey, so I was allowed to charter with it.
CRAWFORD: This was in preparation for a business?
WHITE: Yes. And then at the age of 50, I had the boat in survey, running as a charter boat ...
CRAWFORD: In Dunedin?
WHITE: In Dunedin. And then, once I left teaching, I transferred the boat to Stewart Island. Because I found chartering at Stewart Island right for me.
CRAWFORD: You did a one-year, temporary startup?
WHITE: Couple of years.
CRAWFORD: Then you grew it to full-time chartering, down in Paterson Inlet?
WHITE: Yeah.
CRAWFORD: I think you said you were 61. Has it been fairly consistent, since then? Or have there been any kind of natural breaks in that 11-year period that you were chartering in Paterson Inlet?
WHITE: No, it’s been consistent.
CRAWFORD: Chartering exclusively from Paterson Inlet?
WHITE: Yeah.
CRAWFORD: During that 11 years, what percentage of the time that you were on the water was in Paterson Inlet, versus outside around Stewart Island and Foveaux Strait?
WHITE: Oh, I would say 98% of the time in Paterson Inlet. Occasional trip around the Island, or down to Pegasus.
CRAWFORD: Ok. And that brings us up to the present?
WHITE: Yeah
CRAWFORD: Is there anything else in your coastal experience that we need to account for?
WHITE: Not that I can think of.
2. EXPOSURE TO MĀORI/LOCAL/SCIENCE KNOWLEDGE SYSTEMS
CRAWFORD: To what extent has Māori culture and knowledge contributed to your knowledge about the New Zealand's marine ecosystems?
WHITE: Very Low.
CRAWFORD: Ok. Same thing with regards to Science. To what extent has it influenced your knowledge of coastal marine ecosystems.
WHITE: Definitely Low.
CRAWFORD: Ok. So, your experience with us Science types is kind of on the minimal side?
WHITE: [chuckles] I did have one month in the Subantactic Islands with a group of Scientists studying the Whales. The Southern Right Whales.
CRAWFORD: A month? You were probably counting the days to get away from them.
WHITE: Ah, no. It was amazing.
CRAWFORD: That was maybe more a reflection of the place than the people. [both laugh]
3. WHITE POINTER DISTRIBUTION AND ABUNDANCE
CRAWFORD: What was the first time you became aware of White Pointers?
WHITE: I probably become aware of them when my Father started scubadiving. They started talking about different colours to try and put on to their wetsuits or their tanks to deter Sharks. But they never specifically talked about the White Pointer.
CRAWFORD: it was just 'Sharks' in general?
WHITE: Just Sharks. Yeah.
CRAWFORD: How old were you, when your Dad started doing scubadiving, roughly?
WHITE: 11 or 12.
CRAWFORD: What about White Pointers specifically? Was there a time when you remember first hearing about them?
WHITE: Never ever, never ever thought in terms of a White Pointer. Just thought in the terms of Sharks. The first time I become enlightened about the White Pointers was when I was in the club ...
CRAWFORD: Surf Life Saving Club?
WHITE: Surf life saving, yeah.
CRAWFORD: The Kaka Point Club, in particular?
WHITE: Yes. But going to other regions for competitions. At that time, there was one person taken off the end of the line, around Dunedin.
CRAWFORD: Bill Black?
WHITE: Yeah. It was Bill Black. Then there was a couple of exercises that happened with surfers on boards. Whether they were attacked, or whether something else happened, I don’t know. But it was related to Sharks.
CRAWFORD: This was knowledge that came to you by being part of the surf life saving community? It was through that exposure, the first time that you ever heard specifically about White Pointers?
WHITE: That’s really what it was.
CRAWFORD: Roughly how old were you at the time?
WHITE: I joined the Surf Life Saving Club when I was 12. But I was doing the surf life saving competitions when I was about 15 years of age. And of course, on duty down at the Club at Kaka Point.
CRAWFORD: You talked about going to competitions at other clubs. Which clubs would those been?
WHITE: Dunedin.
WHITE: Yeah. And Brighton.
CRAWFORD: Ok. You were in your mid-teens, and you realized that there was a substantial Shark swimming out there. One that was implicated in the taking of Human lives. Did that change anything about what you did or how you did it? In terms of your time on or in the water?
WHITE: No. Out there in the water, I have thought about it. But it hasn’t stopped me from taking part, no. Definitely has not. I still surf on my own. And I still go out freediving.
CRAWFORD: By yourself?
WHITE: Yeah.
CRAWFORD: I’m presuming you were not at St Clair or St. Kilda for the attacks?
WHITE: No.
CRAWFORD: What did you hear?
WHITE: Well, I first heard about that through the Club and through the media.
CRAWFORD: What did you hear from them?
WHITE: Just that the attack had happened.
CRAWFORD: What was the activity?
WHITE: It was the surf life saving competition. As I understand it, Bill Black was swimming out to sea, on the end of a line from the reel. Doing a rescue. Now, it wasn’t a genuine rescue, it was a competition rescue. He was out there, and something happened to him. The line went slack, they felt the tug as I understand it. They wound it in, and he was gone.
CRAWFORD: Do you know, or did you hear, if anybody saw the Shark?
WHITE: Don’t know that.
CRAWFORD: Ok. Do you remember ever hearing the old-timers saying things about places you should avoid, or things you should do or not do - specifically with regard to Sharks?
WHITE: If the old-timers said anything, they said "Don’t surf on the edge of dark, either morning or night." That was all that was ever said to me.
CRAWFORD: Did they not indicate why that was?
WHITE: Oh, it was because of the Sharks.
CRAWFORD: Yeah. But Sharks of all kinds?
WHITE: Just Sharks. Nobody really talked about just the White Pointer. Everybody just sort of talked about Sharks. If I took any interest in Sharks, it would be looking through a book trying to identify the different kinds. But out there, in the activity ... Sharks. That was all it was.
CRAWFORD: So, any type of advice you would have received from the previous generation was don’t surf at dawn or dusk? Would the same kinds of general rules have applied to the swimmers?
WHITE: Yeah, I think it would do.
CRAWFORD: It was a general kind of rule?
WHITE: Yeah. Yeah it was.
CRAWFORD: Did you follow it?
WHITE: No. [chuckles]
CRAWFORD: You swam, early in the morning, all day long, and late into the dusk?
WHITE: Yeah.
CRAWFORD: Ok. Of the two incidences that you had with Sharks - or big shapes under the water - what time of day were those incidences?
WHITE: Definitely late in the day, late in the evening. Definitely.
CRAWFORD: So, there you are ... living proof that the old-timers might have actually known what the hell was going on?
WHITE: Yeah. [both laugh]
CRAWFORD: Ok. So, during that period of time, your mid- to late-teens ... did anybody else that you know or heard of, did they see Sharks - either at Dunedin, when you were doing competitions, or around the Catlins?
WHITE: Never. Never talked about it. My Father fished off the coast in a large dinghy around the Nuggets all the time. Never come home with a Shark story. I had a large dinghy, and I was launching it off the beach out through the surf and going up to the Nuggets all on my own, 5 o’clock in the morning. And the fishermen were going out in the fishing boats. I spent a lot of time speaking to the fishermen. Nobody ever talked about Sharks. Never.
CRAWFORD: And you were spending significant time on and around the ocean, and talking with others who were doing the same?
WHITE: Yeah, but I just never considered it. I consider it now. But I never did then.
CRAWFORD: Those were the early days. I’m trying to remember - I think our next stop is Marlborough Sound?
WHITE: That’s right.
CRAWFORD: And you were taking, and then instructing, the Outward Bound course. You spent three or four years up in that region?
WHITE: That’s right.
CRAWFORD: If I remember correctly you were teaching boating, kayaking?
WHITE: and diving, and sailing.
CRAWFORD: So, you were spending a lot of time on the water up in the Marlborough Sound region?
WHITE: A lot of time on the water, and a lot of time swimming in the water out there. Huge amount of time. We would dive off the boat out in the middle of the Sounds, and just swim.
CRAWFORD: With all that much time on and in the water - did you ever see Sharks?
WHITE: Never, ever saw a Shark.
CRAWFORD: Did the old-timers have anything to say about Sharks up there?
WHITE: No one ever said anything. And we worked with some real old-timers. Nobody ever said anything to us.
CRAWFORD: Did your mates ever say anything about seeing Sharks?
WHITE: No. When we were at Outward Bound, we would have 60 students running up into the sea.
CRAWFORD: That's 120 eyes.
WHITE: I know. And they’re all in the water.
CRAWFORD: And Sharks - whether they’re shadows, or fins, or whatever - they tend to attract quite bit of attention.
WHITE: That’s right.
CRAWFORD: So, if they were around and visible in any way, there’s a good chance that your group would have seen something of them?
WHITE: Someone would have seen them.
CRAWFORD: Ok. For four years up in the Sounds - nothing there. And then you spent a little bit of time over here in Halfmoon Bay, then back to Nelson ...
WHITE: Never saw a Shark.
CRAWFORD: Never saw, never heard?
WHITE: No, no, never, ever. I’ve seen Orcas in the Sounds, but never saw Sharks.
CRAWFORD: Prior to you going to Marlborough Sound your Dad got a place on Stewart Island?
WHITE: That’s right.
CRAWFORD: You started to spend time there?
WHITE: A lot of time.
CRAWFORD: Paterson Inlet, specifically?
WHITE: Yeah.
CRAWFORD: And that was a seasonal thing to begin with, but it was intense. I mean you were on the water quite a bit?
WHITE: Every single day.
CRAWFORD: And then, after you got your teaching certificate, when you moved to Tuatapere and then to Dunedin, you resumed spending a lot of time in Paterson Inlet?
WHITE: That's right.
CRAWFORD: When you were a kid exploring around in Paterson Inlet, did ever see Sharks of any kind there?
WHITE: As a kid? No Sharks of any kind.
CRAWFORD: Not even a Sevengiller, or anything like that?
WHITE: No. I never came across a Sevengiller back then. But I remember once, as a kid, I must have been about 14 on holiday down there with my Parents. There was a Shark coming through Halfmoon Bay. I didn't actually see it ...
CRAWFORD: Ok.
WHITE: And I remember a Shark being caught in Halfmoon Bay.
CRAWFORD: A Shark was caught in Halfmoon Bay. How?
WHITE: I’m not sure how it was caught. I just heard the story.
CRAWFORD: A 'Shark' - does that mean a White Pointer?
WHITE: As I understand, it was a White Shark.
CRAWFORD: Ok. When you were a kid in Paterson Inlet, seasonally for those many years - did the old-timers ever say anything about Sharks?
WHITE: Never, ever said anything. And I had a lot to do with old-timers down there as well. Genuine old-timers.
CRAWFORD: Did contemporaries, your mates - did they ever say anything?
WHITE: Absolutely nothing. There were lots of things discussed, but we never discussed Sharks.
CRAWFORD: Alright. Let’s go to the time when you moved down to Tuatapere, for those three years, I think you said. You were freediving, and boating, and linefishing, and all that type of stuff in the Inlet during those years. Did you or the old-timers or your mates ever see any Sharks of any kind down there then?
WHITE: Never saw a Shark down there.
CRAWFORD: When you moved back to Dunedin for that 17-year stint. Did you see any Sharks of any kind in the Otago Peninsula region?
WHITE: Absolutely nothing.
CRAWFORD: With all of that time on and around the water?
WHITE: And I spent hours in the water. I come across more Seals than anything else. But never come across a Shark.
CRAWFORD: Was it the case that you would see Seals during their pupping season. Did you see any colonies with little ones?
WHITE: The only time that I’ve seen Seals pupping is when I’ve been sailing through Fiordland, and the pups were up there. Lots and lots of them.
CRAWFORD: What about around Dunedin?
WHITE: On occasion only.
CRAWFORD: And Seals were fairly rare?
WHITE: No, no. There was a few quite a few around out the back of the Peninsula. And down around the side of the Peninsula here, there was quite a few Seals. And they were getting more and more, at that time.
CRAWFORD: Noticeably increasing in abundance?
WHITE: Definitely, yeah. I would be snorkeling at the back of the Peninsula, around there and then up this bit of coastline, freediving. Never saw any Sharks.
CRAWFORD: Nobody told you not to go freediving around Seal colonies, or anything like that?
WHITE: Someone mentioned once that there’s a large White Pointer that lived out around the Peninsula, but ...
CRAWFORD: Somebody mentioned that once - during those 17 years?
WHITE: Well, it was mentioned more than once. People used to talk about this large White Pointer that lived around the Peninsula. But I’ve never seen it.
CRAWFORD: Did it have a reputation for interacting or harassing or anything like that?
WHITE: No, no.
CRAWFORD: Any place in particular?
WHITE: All I knew was, around the Peninsula. During those years, I saw a Thrasher - just inside the inside of the Otago Harbour. But that’s all.
CRAWFORD: How did you know it was a Thresher Shark?
WHITE: Just by its tail.
CRAWFORD: Ok. Let's go to the years after you built your boat, got it surveyed, moved it to Paterson Inlet, and started growing your charter operation. That was a little more than a decade ago?
WHITE: Yeah.
CRAWFORD: I think you said 90% of your time was still around Paterson Inlet, with the occasional trip down to Pegasus?
WHITE: Port Adventure, Lords River and Pegasus .
CRAWFORD: Right. From that point to the present, have you seen any Sharks of any kind in those waters?
WHITE: Right up to the present, I have seen Sevengillers. But that’s only in the last two years.
CRAWFORD: That was in Paterson Inlet?
WHITE: Yeah.
CRAWFORD: Whereabouts?
WHITE: Big Glory.
CRAWFORD: Where the Fish Farm is?
WHITE: Yeah. Further up than the Fish Farm, right at the head of Big Glory. Some quite large Sevengillers. All the ones I saw would have been easy three metres.
CRAWFORD: Did they interact with you, or you just saw them?
WHITE: No, no. I saw them, I followed them in the dinghy, and they just swum around the edges, swum around the boat. I’d be jumping off the boat for a swim, and in a very short time they would arrive. So, I got out of the water. And up in the North Arm, about six months ago, in one day I would have seen eight Sevengillers. On one afternoon.
CRAWFORD: All together?
WHITE: Just in and around the edges, at that time.
CRAWFORD: No, I meant like all together as in as a school of Sevengillers?
WHITE: No, not like that.
CRAWFORD: Ok. That was all in response to my question about Paterson Inlet specifically. What have you heard, if anything, over the past decade about White Pointers elsewhere around Stewart Island of Foveaux Strait in general?
WHITE: Other than the cage diving out at Edwards, the only other times I’ve heard that people refer to White Pointers is at Bobs Boint, which is about here.
CRAWFORD: Yes. Between Port William and Horseshoe Bay?
WHITE: Yeah.
WHITE: And then of course, almost always when you traveled on the ferry they talked about the Great Whites.
CRAWFORD: Who do you mean by 'they'?
WHITE: The crew.
CRAWFORD: The crew, just amongst themselves?
WHITE: No, no. They would give a commentary, on the microphone.
CRAWFORD: What would they say?
WHITE: When they got to the Titi Islands, they would say "This is where the Great White lives, out the back of here." Because the company had a submarine here.
CRAWFORD: The semi-submersible. Tim Dawson was Skipper on that. I have an interview with him coming up. And others as well.
WHITE: Yeah, yeah. There’s a few others that Skippered it as well.
CRAWFORD: What period of time was that? When you heard them saying that ? I’ve been on the ferry several times, and they don’t say any of that now.
WHITE: No, I noticed that too. They don’t talk about it anymore. I wonder if that’s because semi-sub's gone away.
CRAWFORD: Roughly, when did you hear them say it on the ferry?
WHITE: From the time that cage diving really started.
CRAWFORD: Which was when, roughly?
WHITE: To my knowledge would have been about three years ago. Roughly.
CRAWFORD: Have you heard of any pattern in terms of seasonality of when people see the White Pointers around Stewart Island?
WHITE: I haven’t taken any notice of that. Seasonal. Never taken any notice of that. Because I don't live by the seasons. I go out there - it doesn’t matter what the year is doing, I'm there. Doing it. So I don’t take any notice to that kind of pattern.
CRAWFORD: Ok. Is there anything else you’ve heard from other people, in terms of places or patterns where the White Pointers would be?
WHITE: Not that I can think of.
4. WHITE POINTER ENCOUNTERS - DIRECT EXPERIENCES
CRAWFORD: Did you ever seen a White Pointer in the wild when you were a young man?
WHITE: Yes, I think I have. I come across a Shark at St Clair when I was probably 16-17. But I don’t know for sure if it was a White Pointer.
CRAWFORD: Ok. What were you doing at the time?
WHITE: Surfing.
CRAWFORD: For fun? Not on a Surf Life Saving rescue board, or anything like that?
WHITE: No. Surfing for fun.
CRAWFORD: What happened?
WHITE: The alarms went, on the shore. Everybody started going in. People saw this Shark. And everybody left the boiler.
CRAWFORD: Dorsal fin out of the water?
WHITE: Yeah.
CRAWFORD: How close were you to the animal, when you saw it?
WHITE: Oh, probably 50 metres.
CRAWFORD: If you had to guess, roughly how big was it compared to your board?
WHITE: I would have thought it was around 3 metres.
CRAWFORD: So, it was on the small side?
WHITE: Yeah. Wasn’t on the large side.
CRAWFORD: But this 3-metre Shark got picked up visually?
WHITE: Yeah.
CRAWFORD: Did the Surf Life Saving Cub have spotters back in those days?
WHITE: Not specifically.
CRAWFORD: Relative to the attacks, roughly how many years later was this?
WHITE: Probably about three or four years after the attacks.
CRAWFORD: So still relatively recent afterwards?
WHITE: Yeah.
CRAWFORD: Ok. Any other incidences that you had heard about from other people’s experiences? In terms of White Pointer-Human incidences?
WHITE: No, not really. The one that happened at St Clair ... Probably about the same age, same time - once at Kaka Point, in the Nuggets, I had a large fish go around us. But I didn’t see the fish itself.
CRAWFORD: You were 17 to 18?
WHITE: 16 to 17, yeah.
CRAWFORD: Surfing?
WHITE: Yeah.
CRAWFORD: Ok. Set it up. You were with a group?
WHITE: Three of us.
CRAWFORD: What time of year?
WHITE: It was winter.
CRAWFORD: Fairly close to shore?
WHITE: Yeah, pretty close to shore. We would have been only 50 to 100 metres offshore.
CRAWFORD: What happened?
WHITE: Just had some sort of shape go around us. We got out of the water.
CRAWFORD: It circled?
WHITE: Yeah.
CRAWFORD: Once, twice, three times?
WHITE: We only took notice of him once.
CRAWFORD: And then you bolted for shore?
WHITE: Yeah.
CRAWFORD: Any fins? Anything like that?
WHITE: No. No fins.
CRAWFORD: So, it really was just a shadow in the water?
WHITE: Yeah, just a big shadow.
CRAWFORD: Size, relative to your board?
WHITE: I would say again, around the 3-4 metre size.
CRAWFORD: Ok. During the last decade that you've been chartering from Paterson Inlet, have you seen any White Pointers?
WHITE: I came across a very large White Pointer here.
CRAWFORD: 'Here' being Bench Island?
WHITE: Bench Island. It was very large.
CRAWFORD: When was that?
WHITE: I would say four or five years ago.
CRAWFORD: What time of year?
WHITE: I can't really tell you, but I would guess ...
CRAWFORD: Summer? Winter?
WHITE: Probably around October time.
CRAWFORD: Alright. Tell me the circumstances.
WHITE: I was out in the yacht. I had some people on board, and we were out there linefishing. We’d just packed up to come home.
CRAWFORD: Linefishing for Blue Cod?
WHITE: Blue Cod. There was a tide line, running down the coast. I was standing on the deck, explaining to the people on the boat about the food in that tideline, and that some fish live in the tideline for that food. And then all of a sudden, a large fin come out of the water.
CRAWFORD: Were you drifting, were you moored?
WHITE: No, we were drifting.
CRAWFORD: Where was this fin, relative to your vessel?
WHITE: About 30 metres away.
CRAWFORD: Did you see the shape of the Shark?
WHITE: Yes. Because what I did was, I got the white bucket on a lanyard, and started tapping it up and down on the water. And the Shark came right up, nuzzled the bucket, and pushed it along. Right beside the boat, within a metre of the boat.
CRAWFORD: You called the Shark to the boat?
WHITE: Yes.
CRAWFORD: You saw the fin first? It was 30 metres away ... was it coming towards the boat?
WHITE: Yeah, it come over towards us.
CRAWFORD: When it came to the boat, what did it do?
WHITE: It just swum. Just swum past the boat
CRAWFORD: Passed below?
WHITE: Yeah. Down below the boat, and come up.
CRAWFORD: To the other side?
WHITE: Yeah.
CRAWFORD: And then started to circle?
WHITE: No circling. Just down, underneath the boat, and come up. Everybody saw it down this side of the boat. Yeah, and then it disappeared.
CRAWFORD: Oh, I thought it came up to the bucket.
WHITE: Well, it did come back but very, very briefly. You’re talking about 30 seconds. And then it just disappeared. Gone.
CRAWFORD: So, the bucket was on the surface?
WHITE: Just sitting on the surface of the water.
CRAWFORD: On your lanyard. And this White Pointer came up and nudged the bucket?
WHITE: Nuzzled the bucket. And then it went away.
CRAWFORD: When it went away, did it turn? Did it go down? Do you remember?
WHITE: No, I don’t really remember. I think we were pretty well all surprised, and pretty awed by this whole thing.
CRAWFORD: Well, it's a very large fish.
WHITE: Very large fish. Very wide fish.
CRAWFORD: Girth. A lot of people talk about girth on these animals. When it left, do you remember - did it scoot?
WHITE: No. Just quietly took off, quietly swum away.
CRAWFORD: Quiet. It came in quietly ...
WHITE: And quietly went away.
CRAWFORD: [Discussion about project classification levels for human encounters with White Pointers: Level 1-Observation, Level 2-Swim-By, Level 3-Interest, Level 4-Intense]. What Level would you think, for this experience of yours?
WHITE: I would put mine down to Swim-By.
CRAWFORD: Except maybe for the fact that it interacted with your bucket. And that it came back, briefly.
WHITE: It didn’t really go away, to come back. lt just sort of stayed enough to take an interest. It come from the tideline to us.
CRAWFORD: Ok. But it did bump your bucket?
WHITE: It did nuzzle it, yeah.
CRAWFORD: Ok, that was one experience you had with a White Pointer. Have you had any other direct encounters with them since?
WHITE: Up in the North Arm I saw a fin. It wasn’t a Sevengill fin. It would’ve been that far out of the water. It was huge. The thing that got me about the fin more than anything else. It wasn’t the height out of the water. It was the thickness of the fin.
CRAWFORD: How did you know it wasn’t a Sevengiller?
WHITE: Just from seeing the other Sevengill fins. It didn’t even look remotely like a Sevengill fin.
CRAWFORD: The size or the shape?
WHITE: Size. And thickness.
CRAWFORD: It was bigger and thicker?
WHITE: It was really thick. Like about that thick. You know, it was a solid, big fin.
CRAWFORD: Roughly, how many millimetres thick?
WHITE: I’d say 75 millimetres.
CRAWFORD: Ok. Any other observations in Paterson Inlet?
WHITE: I saw another Shark, about this area here.
CRAWFORD: The middle of Paterson Inlet. When was that?
WHITE: I would say about ten months ago. I was travelling from Ulva Island over to Faith, Hope and Charity. I was in the middle, and I had a Shark come up beside me. I was in a little dinghy.
CRAWFORD: How little of a dinghy?
WHITE: Three or three-and-a-half metres. I had this fin come out of the water right beside me, with a tag on the back of it. It was definitely tagged.
CRAWFORD: What do you mean by a 'tag'?
WHITE: Some form of a tag that had been put through the fin of the Shark.
CRAWFORD: 'Put through' as in there was a plate on either side of the dorsal fin?
WHITE: I couldn’t tell you. It was a rough day, I had this fin come up beside me, and I saw this thing off the back of the fin.
CRAWFORD: And you were in a three-and-a-half metre dinghy?
WHITE: Yeah.
CRAWFORD: You said it was a rough day?
WHITE: Rough day, pretty choppy day.
CRAWFORD: We're talking like a half metre swell? Something like that?
WHITE: Yeah. We just get a choppy sea in the Inlet.
CRAWFORD: You were heading into the wind?
WHITE: Across the wind.
CRAWFORD: What happened?
WHITE: I was just cruising. I was in my wetsuit, I’d been away freediving. And I was just cruising. All of a sudden this fin come up beside me, showed for a few seconds, and then disappeared.
CRAWFORD: But it had a tag on it?
WHITE: Definitely had a tag on it. I think it was a sort of a whiteish yellow colour.
CRAWFORD: Was it trailing anything?
WHITE: It looked like it was trailing, just on the back of the fin.
CRAWFORD: So it was fairly short?
WHITE: Yeah, it wasn’t very long. Wasn’t trailing way out the back. It was only behind the fin, just off the back of the fin.
CRAWFORD: So, roughly how long?
WHITE: I would think about that long. About 100 millimetres, 10 centimetres, yeah.
CRAWFORD: And you were in this little dinghy. Did that shake you?
WHITE: No, no. It didn’t worry me.
5. WHITE POINTER ENCOUNTERS - EXPERIENCES OF OTHERS
CRAWFORD: In the last decade that you've been running your charter, has anybody else seen White Pointers in Paterson Inlet?
WHITE: I have been told people have seen White Pointers there.
CRAWFORD: Where?
WHITE: One was specifically ... right down the back here.
CRAWFORD: By Ackers Point?
WHITE: Yeah. Down the back of Ackers Point. Oh, yes ... and Pipi Rocks.
CRAWFORD: East of Ulva Island?
WHITE: Yeah. The people there claimed it was a White Pointer, but I don’t know if it was a White Pointer. They may not have known. But people have always talked about White Pointers being around Pipi Rocks.
CRAWFORD: Is there anything exceptional about that reef? Is there anything close by, or anything about it that’s unusual?
WHITE: No, nothing.
CRAWFORD: Anybody suggest why Pipi Rocks would be important to White Pointers?
WHITE: No, nothing.
CRAWFORD: Ok. Tell me what they told you.
WHITE: Yeah. These people, their boat was approximately 8 metres long. I’m going up the Inlet on my own, to go freediving. And these people waved to me, and I thought to myself, "Ah, no. I’m doing my thing. I’m away." So, I carried on up the Inlet, and went diving. When I got out of the water, some time afterwards, and I started coming back down the coast over towards Ulva Island. This boat come to me and said "Arthur, we’ve just had a Shark come right up over the rail of the boat, trying to get our Blue Cod." Whether it was a White Pointer or some other Shark, I don’t know.
CRAWFORD. When was that?
WHITE: About four months ago.
CRAWFORD: So, wintertime in Paterson Inlet, while linefishing for Blue Cod. How deep was the gunwale, the rail, on their boat?
WHITE: At least the height of the table off the water.
CRAWFORD: That’s a heck of a jump. And this Shark bounced off the gunwale, then back into the water?
WHITE: Yeah. DIdn’t go onto the deck, but when the people come to me they were ... particularly the woman was really, really upset.
CRAWFORD: Shaken up?
WHITE: Really shaken up. She could hardly talk. And the guy was managing to tell me to be careful, because the Shark was around.
CRAWFORD: They were trying to hail you, to tell you what had happened to them?
WHITE: Let me know, yeah. Because it had already happened, and I was on my way out.
CRAWFORD: Nobody has told me anything like that, so far. I mean, there’s a limited number of different Sharks species in and around Paterson Inlet. Have you ever heard anyone talking about a Sevengillers jumping out of the water?
WHITE: Never seen one do that. I’ve never heard either.
CRAWFORD: I’ve heard about them interacting with Humans. Maybe sometimes being a little bit aggressive.
WHITE: Yeah.
CRAWFORD: I’ve heard of them packing up, and swimming around swimmers or divers.
WHITE: Oh, I’ve never seen that.
CRWFORD: But never breaching like that.
WHITE: No. I’ve seen a lot more Sharks around Paterson Inlet in the last two years than I’ve ever seen before. You've got to remember that I spent my childhood up here. Waterskiing, swimming, freediving. I used to sail the boat up the Inlet with a light spinnaker up, trailing a huge rope, diving off the bow, swimming around, grabbing the rope, and pulling myself back onto the boat. Did that for years. I would not do that today. Because of that fin I saw up the North Arm. I don’t know if it was a White Pointer, or what sort of Shark it was, but it was not a Sevengiller. The definite increase in Sevengillers started about two to three years ago and it's increasing all the time.
CRAWFORD: Why the hell would the Sevengillers be increasing in Paterson Inlet?
WHITE: I don’t understand why this is happening. Miller's Beach is where we used to have kids on family outings up in the Inlet. We'd have kids everywhere, in little kayaks, in dinghies and yachts. Chucking them over, and everything else. We never ever saw a Sevengiller. Today, every time I anchor up in Miller’s beach, we can almost guarantee we’re going to see two or three Sevengillers.
CRAWFORD: I think you said before that as soon as you saw Sevengillers, you got out of the water?
WHITE: If I’m diving off the boat and having a swim. Every single day, at the start of my day, I swim. If there’s other people on the boat, they often join me, and they dive off the boat to swim. But then I stand on the deck peeling my eyes on the water. I never used to do that, but today you could almost guarantee you’re going to have a Sevengiller come around.
CRAWFORD: Of all the Sharks, including the White Pointers and the Sevengillers, plus the ones you haven't been able to identify - roughly what percentage of all those Sharks have been Sevengillers?
WHITE: I would say 95 percent. Yeah, I’ve seen a lot of Sevengillers out there. Right up through.
CRAWFORD: Any types of pattern in Paterson Inlet? Like, where they are and where they're not.
WHITE: Definitely at Dynamite Point in the Inlet. Seeing a lot more around Miller’s beach. And up in Big Glory. I haven't seen them anywhere else. But talking to my Nephews, who also spend a lot of time in the water - a lot of time - the two of them now have had Sevengillers come right up to them, while they’re snorkelling. They’re all about three metres.
CRAWFORD: Coming up and circling around?
WHITE: No circling. Just nosing around and so forth.
Copyright © 2020 Arthur White and Steve Crawford